Latin

Caught up in nonsense, as always

I have a goodly number of pet peeves, as anyone of my disposition would have. But I just read something where a young woman was discussing how “you” can be singular or plural, and therefore “they” should also be accepted as referring to both singular and plural.

It reminded me of a Latin pet peeve of mine, specifically having to do with Latin to English translation.

When I see verbs with specific “you” singular or plural (for example -t/-tis, -it/-itis, istī/-istis, etc), I absolutely demand that this difference in included in the English translation. If it is a plural “you,” it must be translated into “all of you” or “you all” because simply putting “you” to indicate both singular and plural is misleading and could confuse translation and meaning. And if the translator fails to translate it just so, I will write it in for them.

59 thoughts on “Caught up in nonsense, as always

  1. Language and Grammar is an interesting thing. Let me tell you about the “you” in german.

    When I started at the school to learn English, with limited success, I was confused about the “you” thing. My first question was, ” There is only “you” and nothing more?? Then how can you be polite and respectful in english?” You see, we in german have 2 forms for “you”. “Sie” and “Du”. You use “Sie” for supervisors, teachers, visitors, strangers, colleagues,ect ect. Conclusion: For all the people who are not in personal close contact with you. The “Du” you use to familie, friends, partner, all person who are-more or less-close to you.

    Of course there are exceptions. For example. I and my colleagues use “Du”. But It is requested in the first place, and usually always the elder ask for it. Well, usually.

    What means, If you would be my teacher and we would speak german, I would use “Sie” for you, never “you”. That would be disrespectful and inappropriate. Unless you allow it. Motto: “It´s ok Laerits, you can use “du”.” Pretty simple right? 😀

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    1. Quite simple, and I do so love the ways of linguistics. I think to English speakers, they would go crazy trying to decide when one becomes a “du” as opposed to “sie” as associations progress and evolve. In Latin, we have various ways of saying phrases that project respect or formality, such as when we say please, more specifically variations of the phrase “if it is pleasing to…”/”if it pleases…”

      Which would you use with me? “Sie” or “du”?

  2. O.O Wow that sounds amazing…and very difficult to understand. xD Ah latin is really an adorable language. The first Latin phrases and words I read were in the comics of “Asterix”. I think it was the same with Michelle. All children and adults read “Asterix”. ^^ And of course, the romans in the comic speak latin from time to time. Of course it always has been translated. There is a lot of latin in “Asterix.”
    What means, a 6 year old Laertis say “Alea iacta est, Cogito, ergo sum, Gloria victis, Quid?, Redde Caesari quae sunt Caesaris!, Veni, vidi, vici and Ave, Caesar, morituri te salutant,” the whole time. *laugh* My mother almost drives crazy, if I remember correctly.
    The comic Asterix is comedy and is from France, do you know it?

    Ja, the mean stuff with “Sie” is, you use “Sie” not “only” for strangers or to be polite, you use it for females as well. 😀 What means “Sie” is “She” in english. ^^ That really sucks for many foreigner. lol.

    As I said, if you would be my teacher I would use “Sie”. Here in your place we are quite close. Everything you write sounds educational, knowledgeable and great, and what matters most, you sound friendly. You speak to us like a close, confidant person or a friend. At least in german ears. So I would ask you, “Marius, würdest du mir bitte erlauben dich mit “Du” anzusprechen? Marius, would you please allow me to address you with “Du”? The decision is then up to you. Of course, the same goes for me. I’m over 16 years old, so I have the right and privilege that everyone say “Sie” to me, If I want it. But please, use “Du”, I like that more. 😉 😀

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    1. I remember Asterix. I think my favourite is Asterix e il regalo di Cesare, or rather, Asterix and Caesar’s Gift. They even have some, if not all, of the animated movies on youtube like Astérix et Cléopâtre. Though one must know French to enjoy the movie. I don’t think I have read the entirety of the Asterix series, but I have read a goodly number of them.

      Glory to the defeated indeed! I am sure the Irish must have a toast dedicated to that quote alone.

      How silly it is that the phrase, “Avē, Caesar, moritūrī tē salūtant” makes me feel so very nostalgic. I could never get tired of those phrases, no matter how many times you said them.

      But of course I would, as a fellow scholar and confidant, use the word “du” in reference to you. Likewise, you would have my humble and gracious permission to use it in reference of me. I prefer an academy of equals.

      1. I watched all movies, real and animated alike. In german, of course, and in france with german subtitles. I can´t say I have a favorite. My mother had all comics at home, so I know the series until “Asterix and Maestria” (La Rose et le Glaive).

        Do you mean the bloody war between Britain and Ireland? Or in general?

        Jaaaaa true, but it´s still one of my favorite phrases. I don´t know why…perhaps because it touch me very much. Besides…cruel or not, it sounds cool. xD
        Nostalgic hmn? How often you visit Circo Massimo? Had you a favorite the Gladiator fight style? Or have you prefer the chariot race? I like the dimachaerus who used two swords, one in each hand. hihi.

        O.O Fellow scholar? Moi? Well, I call that and compliment and honor. But…oh dear, are you sure you talking about me??? I don´t have a good college education, and I was never the smartest. My teachers says always I’m hopeless case. :p
        Hmm but I read a lot, watch documentaries, talk with others and many of my friends are professors, teachers, philosophers, historian or genius like Michelle. ^^ So I know one or two things, even though I was never good at school.. 🙂

        *smilie* Oh thank you!! Yeah, I can use “du” for Marius, that´s pretty cool. And I love your way with words.

        By the way, today I will visit a concert! Absolutely spontaneously. My city have a close friendship with France, Italian, china and america. And tonight is a special event for our American citizen. 🙂 All generals, mayors, city councilors, and the rest of high society will be there. And because I work for the city, and because there was 3 tickets left I got one. ^^
        My place is even in the front row were is only for high society …and me normal girl. *laug* The ladies of all generals have all designer dresses and all that boring stuff like expensive jewelry. Of course, I have no expensive and classy dress.So I will get attract attention in any case. …and not in the best way >.<
        But that´s not my fault, I could never buy such dresses. :p Oh don't get me wrong, I´m not sad about that fact, I dont need that stuff. But of course, in such a situation it sucks a bit. I will get all that "why can she not wear a noble dress?" and "Oh dear that pitty woman" look. This is a little embarrassing and annoying but the music should be fantastic. So…I wanna see it!! xD Please cross the fingers for me that the people don´t see me and I can enjoy the music. ^^ I looking forward to it.

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        1. I mean just in general. And I am sorry, as sometimes what I like to refer as my “Patrician” nature comes out and I can be terribly judgemental. I must learn to control all compulsion toward attitudes of nobility and aristocracy. Yet as they say, old habits die hard.

          Unfortunately, I did not attend the Circus Maximus as much as other people of my economic and political standing because I hated the crowds, I hated the roaring and clamour, and I hated the excessive brutality of it. Though in retrospect I probably had and still have a greater tolerance of brutality than even most people today, and also a greater appreciation of the finer art of brutality. I would not flinch to see a man have his head severed, or to watch a man running around with his arm half torn from his body, or to see two creatures tear each other apart, it just seemed horribly unrefined and disgustingly decadent. I had a bit of old Republic snobbery, I imagine, though I was by no standard a typical “Roman” man. I was too bookish, too quiet, too solitary, too “playful,” and too lazy. I hadn’t the slightest desire to follow the course set out before me as a Roman man: schooling, rhetoric school, military, marriage, children, then political office. I wanted to be out in the world, travelling and writing. Only twice did I want to marry, both times to the same girl, and both times rejected with firstly a laugh and then secondly a quite forceful ejection from the household.

          I did love the opening parade because it was very festive, grandiose, and colourful. I also loved the events where we would be shown all of the magnificent beasts from around the world, strange exotic things that are no longer either strange or exotic, but seemed to us to be creatures out of mythology. We all took pride in their exposition, of course, because they were most of all symbols of Roman power. As real titled Roman citizens, they likewise stood as a symbol of our power over all men and creature. It seems such as silly thing now, but to us it was everything. It was what made Rome the formidable force it was. Pride can go a long, long way.

          Gladiators were humongous! I don’t mean in height, as I am taller than most men, now and then, but I mean in muscle mass. The women loved them, huge men made of pure muscle, sweat, and scars. They were like I believe rock stars to be now. I admit I did have a strange fascination with Gladiators. You see, it was bred into every Roman boy to be willing to die for Emperor and Empire, which I most certainly was. I would have placed myself on my knees at the feet of my Emperor without hesitation and pledged my life. I would have been absolutely sincere in my willingness to die at any moment if he should so command or necessitate it. Because there was nothing more glorious than the power and supremacy of Rome, which came at the cost of many, many lives.

          Fortunately, I was rich. So I didn’t need to.

          But back on topic, I was always fascinated with Gladiators because they seemed to be willing to die for a glory I could not conceive. Not for the glory of Rome, but for the hearts of a fickle crowd who would, in a weeks time, forget all about them and move on to the next brawny star of the arena. I suppose on some level this was out of their hands, as Gladiators tended to be slaves, and to reconcile their fate they had to make it grander than it was. Because, yes, they needed to believe they were dying for something worth dying for, otherwise the bitterness would manifest itself in terrible ways. To die a soldier is to die with honour. To die a Gladiator is to die at the hands of a crowd, chanting your death, and forgetting about you the next day. If you live, you die a slave. If you purchase your freedom, you end you life a bodyguard to a politician. There just seemed to be no honour, and no worthy glory without honour.

          Yet I still, from time to time, enjoyed them. I imagine our enthusiasm to be like a sport crowd these days, the way the people support their favourite football team, for instance. I liked the lightened armed Gladiators the best because they were the most vulnerable, and also the most vicious and creative. I liked the Laquerarii as they had lassos that they would try to ensnare the enemy with, which took a talent and precision that I envied. I also liked the Thracians because I loved the delicate viciousness of their curved siccae.

          You don’t have to have a college education, straight As, or recognition to be a scholar. One need have only a deep love of knowledge, and of learning. I was told I was hopeless by teachers, as well. Because I found their knowledge tedious and insignificant. I wanted to learn by walking the world and interacting with people and things, not listening to some old Greek man reciting old histories ad nauseum. You are a scholar.

          And certainly you must take your place amongst high society, as you belong there. Labels and money are insignificant, and we judge people on their character, not their good fortune and luck. If high society were based on personality and kindness, you would always be in the first row, as you are such a sweet young woman. In no matter what you wear, certainly lovely. As you say, you don’t need those things, and rightly so, because we must cultivate what is inside, and an obsession with appearance leaves must to be desired in hearts and minds.

          Please tell me more about the concert.

        2. You” Patrician” nature? Hihi, that sounds cute ^^ And it suits to such an old man 😉 Ha. Yes I have notice that you are terribly judgemental. It is not a virtue but it could be worse. 😉 😉
          Indeed, old habits die hard, like vampires, but they can die in the end.

          …Too bookish, too quiet, too solitary, too “playful,” and too lazy… and no desire to follow the course…oh dear, you sound like me. *laugh*

          Oh well, you dont get the girl but she is on your side in any case. Not as your wife but your lover, friend and nemesis forever. I think thats better. 😀
          However, if her father would have given you permission to marry Pandora, how old would she have been? 14 years? I would not have been able to cope with having sex with a man at the age of 14. What can you say in your defence? lol 😀

          From my current perspective, I would not have enjoyed games that involve death.
          The very idea that a poor tiger is tortured makes me cry. Not to mention the bloody battles of the Gladiators. I have no problems when fighters get hurt, thats the game, but I dont like massakers just for fun. This is neither sporty nor honorable.
          But that does not change the fact that I love a good fight. Asian martial arts is my favorite fighting stye. But not only. And of course, I love weapons. Katana and swords are my favorites.
          But a fan, a bow or a whip is not bad either. Ah yes, that’s my cup of tea. 😀

          Ah yes, I can understand that you loved the opening parade and the show of all of the magnificent beasts. I’m sure I would have felt the same way.

          Ha, well If I had lived in that time, I certainly would have liked or admired a gladiator because of his fighting skills…and the scars. But he never would have come between my legs. I don´t like muscular men, and sweat is not my taste either. Brrr.

          Ok Marius, your, “Fortunately, I was rich. So I didn’t need to”, made me laught for almost an hour and I am still grinning.
          However, I can understand the feeling and the willing to die without hesitation for something you love, you admire, for honor and glory whatever. I guess if I lived in that time and had been a man, I would have probably just ended like that. I surely would not have been rich. Well I hope it would have been a glorious death. Ha.

          I have read that not all gladiators were slaves, it was almost 50/50. And of course, they got good food.

          Aww that´s so cool that someone knows about gladiator stuff not only from the movies and knows the diffrent fighting styls and name of the weapons too. XDD I also find it very interesting that there was always typical pairings. Retiarius against secutor or thraex against murmillo were classic combinations.
          Ah yes, the Thracians is a good fighter, no doubt! Thats the guy with the spears and or gladius and shield, right?
          Hmm … Isidore of Seville mentioned the Laquerarii right? I thought the Laquearius had made Arena stuff during executions.
          Pff however you know what? Your Laquearius would never had a chance against my dimachaerus. HA! 😛

          I´m sure you know Commodus right? (I mean that crazy guy Imperator Caesar Lucius Aelius Aurelius Commodus Pius Felix Augustus.) He also fought as a “gladiator” with the Scaeva styl (if i remember correctly). Of course in a unfairly way. Finally, he wanted to be cool and just make some massacre. But he was unique in the sense that he also fought in this way. To bad that the man was a sick mad ass. … But in the movie he was adorable. hihi.

          Ha. You sound like Michelle. Umm well, thank you.
          It is true that I learn best if its “learning by doing” and most of the time this way is really more interesting and fun.
          But it is more as just odd to be called a scholar by a clever genius like you two. Hmm…but…somehow…is that cool…and be sure I blush now.

          I do not know if I looked lovely, buuuut I liked the the lipstick I wore. This was the 3 lipstick I’ve ever bought in my life. Well, I had to buy one since I had run out of my old one. I bought it ten years ago. It’s really a shame a lipstick doesn’t last longer than 10 years if you consider how costky they are. >.<

          You know how you can flatter a woman my dear friend. You choose nice words, my compliment.
          Well, well, Lestat says always that I´m cute and sweet, like my blood. Although I am perfectly sure that my blood, thinned and completely full of medicines, is not good for any vampire. You all would just get an stomach. And do not dare to claim otherwise.

          I was enthralled by the music and I ignored the whole army people and councilors. And yes, I think my soul is good and looks ok. 🙂

          The name of the band was "The united states army of europe Band &Chorus"
          On this evening they have "just" sung carols. There were one or two songs I didn't know, "typical" American X-mas songs. Something like Frosty snowman I believe. My favortie song, however, was "O Chanukah".
          In between, they had small shows. The topic was Christmas, in a very american and army way. Some were funny and good, some so typically American. At least what is typically American for us.
          For example, two women look forward to Christmas.
          Woman 1 says. Oh Christmas is the most beautiful season.
          Woman 2: Yes, indeed. But I hope that my boyfriend comes back from the war. The Afghanistan thing is terrible.
          Woman 1: True, but its for a good thing. It is really important.

          Well, if war important or not, it's written on another page, but I simply don't like the war stuff. Ok It was a army band and it was easy to foresee that something like this would come. However, army band or not, it sucks a bit when the topic is only about soldiers and Christmas. It reminded me of an advertisement for the army. But that was the only thing I dont like much.
          The band and singers were wonderful. Great talents and I think it's cool that the Army, promotes art, sport and music. The music and the people were great. It was a wonderful concert!

          Have you any plans for X-mas?

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        3. Judgemental I may be, but at least I am aware of it, and very rarely do I hold people’s fault’s too terribly against them. I allow them each and every one to make up their flaws. I like to think everyone has something to offer, perhaps not something I am interested in, but they shall find their niche somewhere with someone, far away from me.

          “Too bookish, too quiet, too solitary, too “playful,” and too lazy… and no desire to follow the course…oh dear, you sound like me. *laugh*”

          Do I? Well then it must not be too bad a thing to be since you are a delightful young woman. Still, no one would let me near their daughters.

          “Oh well, you dont get the girl but she is on your side in any case. Not as your wife but your lover, friend and nemesis forever. I think thats better.”

          And as I like to remind her, a good thing we never married because she would have certainly sent me to an early grave.

          “However, if her father would have given you permission to marry Pandora, how old would she have been? 14 years? I would not have been able to cope with having sex with a man at the age of 14. What can you say in your defence? lol”

          My goodness, it sounds so terrible, doesn’t it? There was little concept of adolescence and young women were women when they were able to bear children. In any case, I was a wanderer, so I doubt I would have returned to marry her before she was 16 or 17.

          What can I say in my defence? I would have been gentle, and I am certain she would have enjoyed herself. I do not think she would have resisted me because, by the time she was 16, she wanted me very, very much. Even me with my human senses and mind could read such from her. Then again, she was and still is quite direct, so she left little to the imagination, but that is a story for another time. I would have understood her reticence, though, because I had sisters, and when Pandora reached the age of 17, I was by then a 32 year old man. She would have pretended to be fearless, but I imagine I would have felt a slight tremble to her body. We never got the chance. Her father refused me both times, and by the time I was 32 I gone and soon to be made what I am.

          You don’t like the idea of a massacre for fun? Well then you certainly would have shared my general distaste for many of the Roman blood sports.

          I have to admit, I have yet to watch very much Asian martial art. I do love the bow and arrow because I think the precision of such a weapon is elegant. Then I tend to like anything that does not involve hack and slashing, as odd as that may sound seeing as I, like every boy, was taught to use a sword and was likewise taught to respect what it could do. I always liked archery, though I paid little effort to it since I preferred poetry, writing, and meeting strange exotic people. I had little time left to shoot or jab at things for fun. That’s not to say that I disliked physical activity. I loved to run as a young man, and did so daily. There was something about testing the limits of my own endurance. I remember how it felt: covered in cooling sweat, pushing out steady breaths to keep from panting, your muscles and heart screaming, telling your body just a few inches more, just a few inches more, over and over again until you could no longer take another step forward. I had excellent stamina, which certainly helped me in my relentless travels.

          “Ha, well If I had lived in that time, I certainly would have liked or admired a gladiator because of his fighting skills…and the scars. But he never would have come between my legs. I don´t like muscular men, and sweat is not my taste either. Brrr.”

          Strong powerful men, evidence of their biological prowess and ability to survive against… what? A massive lion? A bear? Or maybe just smaller men? Women and their tastes, such a confusing thing. Maybe Roman women loved Gladiators because they were dangerous, one step (or rather misstep) away from death, killing to survive, the embodiment of a warrior who is fearless and merciless? Because that may have been so unlike their real Roman husbands, flabby and old, and certainly not very brave. Burping wine, copulating with slaves, and decadent in taste.

          Let me see… the sort of men Laertis would like. I bet you like men who are quiet and thoughtful, intellectual and artistic. Confident but not boisterous or arrogant. Just old fashioned enough to understand sophistication and honour, but not old fashioned enough to be Victorian.

          “Ok Marius, your, “Fortunately, I was rich. So I didn’t need to”, made me laught for almost an hour and I am still grinning.
          However, I can understand the feeling and the willing to die without hesitation for something you love, you admire, for honor and glory whatever. I guess if I lived in that time and had been a man, I would have probably just ended like that. I surely would not have been rich. Well I hope it would have been a glorious death. Ha.”

          I am glad to have made you laugh. I did intend it to be a joke, but unfortunately I think most people miss my humour. It is good to know someone knows good dry humour.

          I was lucky to be who I was. I was born the son of a slave, and by Roman custom babies are given the social status of their mothers. I think this was to protect all of those rich Roman men from their hordes of illegitimate children. So I was a slave just as my mother was, but my father was a truly great and kind man, so he promptly took me under his care and raised me as one of his own, with his own wife, and their own children. I was adopted by him, given his name, and a good allowance to live off of. His wife was a good woman, and was always kind to me. I was cared for very well even as a young man. Enough that with the exception of serving in the military and government, as any man of my station was expected to do, I could live a life of relative leisure and travel without care for income.

          Another reason most men kept their daughters far, far away from me.

          “Aww that´s so cool that someone knows about gladiator stuff not only from the movies and knows the diffrent fighting styls and name of the weapons too. XDD I also find it very interesting that there was always typical pairings. Retiarius against secutor or thraex against murmillo were classic combinations.
          Ah yes, the Thracians is a good fighter, no doubt! Thats the guy with the spears and or gladius and shield, right?
          Hmm … Isidore of Seville mentioned the Laquerarii right? I thought the Laquearius had made Arena stuff during executions.
          Pff however you know what? Your Laquearius would never had a chance against my dimachaerus. HA!”

          Thracians were very effective fighters. They carried a very small curved blade that was particularly vicious because it was designed to be aimed at all the most vulnerable, naked parts of another man’s body. Deadly sharp and very, very fast. I did like a Retiarius because I found their skill with net casting to be a sort of art form in and of itself. Yet a Laquearius was fun because I do so love whips. I will also concede that watching a Dimachaerus was quite impressive, especially when they wore very little armour.

          You are a scholar, and though you may be modest, you must believe that I am right. I would not give you any credit that I did not feel due to you, and you know I do not suffer fools easily. I would not grant you such status if I did not feel absolutely that you deserved it. But do continue to blush, please.

          “I do not know if I looked lovely, buuuut I liked the the lipstick I wore. This was the 3 lipstick I’ve ever bought in my life. Well, I had to buy one since I had run out of my old one. I bought it ten years ago. It’s really a shame a lipstick doesn’t last longer than 10 years if you consider how costky they are. >.<" Is make-up terribly expensive? I wouldn't know, of course. But I do love a woman in a nice red lipstick. "You know how you can flatter a woman my dear friend. You choose nice words, my compliment. Well, well, Lestat says always that I´m cute and sweet, like my blood. Although I am perfectly sure that my blood, thinned and completely full of medicines, is not good for any vampire. You all would just get an stomach. And do not dare to claim otherwise." Lestat does try very hard to be dangerously romantic because he imagines himself a fiendish Lothario. How adorable of him. All human blood is delicious, but more than that, the essence of person consumed. Every thought, every memory, every pain and desire flowing out of one body into the other. It is your very sweet nature that would make your blood sweet. Every sweet feeling you have in your heart, all of your kindness and innocence, we would taste it. I would rather liken it to a very fine, sweet dessert wine than something that would give me a stomach ache.

        4. Excuse a short interruption, please:

          [i] “You don’t have to have a college education, straight As, or recognition to be a scholar. One need have only a deep love of knowledge, and of learning.” [/i]
          That’s what I’m telling her all the time, too. Thanks a lot, Marius.
          Besides: Last night it was Laertis who gave me a lesson on gladiators and emperor Commodus 😉

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        5. Maybe if we both insist mercilessly she will concede she is a scholar.

          Lucky you. I would love a lecture on Gladiators and Commodus.

        6. Dear Michelle, dear Marius… are you allied now?? xD
          Please, don´t be merciless!! You make me blush and confuse me all the time.

          Hahaha. Hey I´m sure you know a lot more about Commodus and company as I do.

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        7. Allied in a cause that is worthy, and sincere in its intent. You may be modest because I will sing your praises for you.

          And I am certain without hesitation that there is something you know about Commodus that I do not. After all, I cannot know everything, can I?

  3. As Laertis pointed out already the German language differentiates between the grammatical persons (and also the cases) a bit more clearly than the English language. The personal pronouns of 3rd person singular female and 3rd person plural are actually the same but the verb always makes it clear which is meant.

    Martin Luther already described how difficult a task translating could be: http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/readfile?fk_files=1441909&pageno=5

    I imagine this pet peeve of yours would be called finickiness by some but I think most people have similar pet peeves themselves. I for example have a hard time keeping quiet when I read or hear someone saying: “In 20**…” That’s English and sounds horrible in a German sentence.

    What is the biggest difference between Latin and English in your opinion?

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    1. I am very “finicky,” and shamelessly so.

      But how I love reading anything written by Martin Luther. He had such an amusing way with vulgarity and insult. Most of all, I am impressed he lived to die by natural causes. Yet he is right: words are problematic because some ideas, concepts, phrases, and definitions don’t exist in certain languages, and we have to speak around them. But in doing so, we lose some of the original intent of the word.

      The biggest difference between Latin and English, I think, is sentence arrangement. English tends to follow a simple subject-verb-object (direct and indirect) pattern with some variation for the inclusion of other sentence parts such as adjectives, adverbs, prepositions, and the like: I (S) drink (V) wine (O). Yet in Latin, as you know, simple sentence structure follows a pattern of subject-object-verb: Ego (S) vinum (O) bibō (V). And, in fact, as you know, Latin doesn’t even need the subject in that particular sentence because the verb indicates subject. Of course, the subject is “I,” because the verb “bibō” is 1st person, 3rd conjugation, 1st principal part.

      This can be difficult for people who are used to a SVO sentence order… utterly perplexing for them. Translating for them means skipping back and forth through the sentence. When I have to take someone through the exercise of translating Latin, I have them first look at endings of words and label the parts of a sentence, then translate literally, and then rearrange their parts of translation into a phrase that makes sense in the new language.

      1. A translator always has to decide where to put the focus, accuracy of the word or accuracy of the style. That’s one of the reasons I read books in the original whenever possible but I harbour a deep admiration for good translators.
        Hehe, StVO the Straßenverkehrsordnung ( traffic regulation law) is something I had a hardd time learning and I know I still forget about it sometimes. German sentence order is much less regulated.
        Ha, if ever possible I do translations with a pencil in hand to mark endings which may belong together. But I don’t want to draw in all my books.

        1. I use a notecard or a piece of paper. I do write in the books if I am allowed, to some degree with shorthand, the various labelling of parts of the sentence or which case is used, or what principal part is used. I find it to be useful to do so because it provides a sort of translation road map to linking parts of the sentence together. I think you of all people can understand the joy of writing out a completed translated sentence. It can’t be just me. I cannot be that much of a boring academic that others do not share the same sort of satisfaction at a properly translated phrase. And sometimes when I stare down at a page of Latin, I am filled with just pure happiness and excitement to unwind its mystery one word at a time. It is not so hard, but I like to take my time and label and construct, that way I can provide the same roadmap for others who may want to work behind me or see how I got to the translated conclusion I did.

          I love it. My passion for the Latin language is ousted by few other things. When I hear it, in its full classical glory, my insides just sigh with pleasure.

  4. I´m not modest but on edge. Do you want that my cheeks don’t stop blushing? I will faint when you two are so strange and kind.

    Of course not but you are the Rome expert, and because of that fact you surely know a lot more about Commodus as I do. I´m just a normal one, remember? ^///^ But of course, test me, if you want to.

    A little note. In some posts I cannot reply. Any Idea what´s wrong with my I-net? XD

    1. I find blushing to be an important quality in a lady.

      Test you? How about something easy? The name of Commodus’s mistress.

      I changed a few commenting variables, one of them allowing nested threads of only four replies. That is to avoid threads becoming too large in number, and therefore too small in size. It forces people to make a new thread so that they don’t become too cramped into increasingly slimmer boxes.

      1. O.O Why´s that? Is that such a man thing I can´t understand as a woman?

        Marcia Aurelia Ceionia Demetrias, daughter of Marcia Aurelius Sabinianus. The next level please!

        Aaahhhh OK! Good to hear, I thought something is wrong with my I-net connection. Thanks a lot!

        1. There is certainly nothing a man could know that a woman could not. I only like to start easy and then work my way up to hard.

          Tell me why Commodus adopted the honourific Felix.

  5. Oh you devil you! That was mean. And I have to admit that I used the I-net. I know what felix means, its the lucky one, so it has something to do with that. And he adopted the title in 185 a.d.!! 185 he won the 1000th Gladiator fight and he found out about a conspiracy against him (Hey you need luck for that XD ).
    Well, we talk about Gladiator fights so I guess the reason why he adopted the honourific Felix is because he won the 1000th fight.

    1. Here is th anwer of my other post. Could you please tell me how I can quote?

      Could it be that sometimes you like it to be so judgemental?

      Very rarely ? When you do it? With some people you don´t like?

      Yes I think you are right, everyone has something to offer but of course it doesn´t mean that I must like it.

      Such a charmeur you are. =^.^=
      OMG *LAUGH* I LOVE it! XDDD You know what? If I had a child, I wouldn´t allow that he/she gets close to you as well. That could end in a disaster. In the end you would sleep with them and vamp them! *tsk, tsk* This is unacceptable.

      *lol* And again, I lover your humor.
      What means, power or not, the woman has the last word. Oh I like that. Must be frustrating for powerful men. Perhaps it´s getting time that I blow you a kiss, otherwise you will get mad with me and my boldness. …Even when I´m right. 🙂

      If I had lived in that time I would have been a woman with 13 years and 10 months >.Then again, she was and still is quite direct, so she left little to the imagination, but that is a story for another time.Strong powerful men, evidence of their biological prowess and ability to survive against… what? A massive lion? A bear? Or maybe just smaller men? Women and their tastes, such a confusing thing. Maybe Roman women loved Gladiators because they were dangerous, one step (or rather misstep) away from death, killing to survive, the embodiment of a warrior who is fearless and merciless? Because that may have been so unlike their real Roman husbands, flabby and old, and certainly not very brave. Burping wine, copulating with slaves, and decadent in taste.Let me see… the sort of men Laertis would like. I bet you like men who are quiet and thoughtful, intellectual and artistic. Confident but not boisterous or arrogant. Just old fashioned enough to understand sophistication and honour, but not old fashioned enough to be Victorian.Another reason most men kept their daughters far, far away from me.You are a scholar, and though you may be modest, you must believe that I am right. I would not give you any credit that I did not feel due to you, and you know I do not suffer fools easily. I would not grant you such status if I did not feel absolutely that you deserved it. But do continue to blush, please.Lestat does try very hard to be dangerously romantic because he imagines himself a fiendish Lothario. How adorable of him.<

      Lothario? Ha. So you know Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes, right? 😀

      And you don´t see him as a romantic and fiendish Lothario?

      Belive me, my blood would give you a stomach ache, I´m sure of this!!! However… O.O That all sounds that you would chew on me as well! I say it to the other vamps, I will say it to you too.
      Thera are a plenty of mortals, especially vampire fans, who want to be bitten, who beg for it, who would do anything for it… take them!! You will have fun with them, not me! My blood is mine and mine alone, and only my doc gets some. Besides, no vampire should get that close to my heart and soul.
      In the vampire-bite & drink- thing I will stay a virgin. Pure and untouchable. 😀
      Oh, and seriously, no vamp in my bed! I have nothing against necrophiles, but let´s face it, it´s Illegal!!

      1. How to quote, you take the text you want to quote and wrap it in tags that say <blockquote></blockquote>

        When I am faced with someone I do not like, yes, though I like to maintain my grace and composure even when I am amongst those who annoy me. Sadly, I am one of those sorts who lets everything gather inside of me and build to such a point that I “explode” and lash out at the nearest person, friend or foe. Even worse, I can be very cruel to them.

        Quite a charmer? I hope so! I have had so many years to practise, and I daresay a good education in charm living in the years of courtly concern where men were to be gentlemen and women were to be ladies. Plus, good breeding sticks with you, even for an eternity, it seems.

        Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes is a book near and dear to my heart. Hapless adventure and good intentions, even if the entirety of it is absurd. The part of the book in which our titled hero fights the windmill is absolutely hilarious.

        I haven’t had a stomach ache in so very long I might be curious as to what they feel like. And you are right, there are many girls and boys who would readily give themselves over to be bitten. Once we were devils and had to sneak or kill, but now if we choose we can simply pick out a willing participant whose willingness can be very charming. Sadly, most of them are fans of things like Twilight and Vampire Diaries and therefore I want nothing to do with them, neither me nor my fangs. I must have standards.

        I cannot blame you. Necrophilia sounds very unappealing, also cold and as I understand decomposition to be, very messy. Cold bodies are disarming, and lack of breath I think should be a deal breaker. Fortunately, I can do more than just rest prone and unmoving on a slab.

        1. Thanks , ok I will try it!

          By the way, was my Commodus answer right or not?? Teach me my dear mentor, teach me!

          When I am faced with someone I do not like, yes, though I like to maintain my grace and composure even when I am amongst those who annoy me. Sadly, I am one of those sorts who lets everything gather inside of me and build to such a point that I “explode” and lash out at the nearest person, friend or foe. Even worse, I can be very cruel to them.

          Hmmm. Explosions are not very environmentally friendly. What mean things do you say or do to them?

          Should you ever by cruel to me, I will bite you! … Perhaps that is not the best threat for a vamp…

          Quite a charmer? I hope so! I have had so many years to practise, and I daresay a good education in charm living in the years of courtly concern where men were to be gentlemen and women were to be ladies. Plus, good breeding sticks with you, even for an eternity, it seems.

          Ha. Yes. Perfect to catch your prey. Lucky us that you are a good master…umm I mean good vamp guy.

          A very good breeding indeed.

          Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes is a book near and dear to my heart. Hapless adventure and good intentions, even if the entirety of it is absurd. The part of the book in which our titled hero fights the windmill is absolutely hilarious.

          When did you first read it?

          Indeed, that part is really hilarious. This scene was also filmed many times. For advertising or similar.

          A stomach ache is not desirable, especially not when it comes from my blood!!

          Ha, yes. So many willing victims, which must be the paradise for every vampire. That means, a Laertis -with a lot of medicine in the blood- is completely uninteresting. 😀 😀 😀

          Be honest, haven’t you given in to temptation with such a willing and innocent human?

          I don´t see Twilight and Vampire Diaries as vamp stories. That´s…forgive me…bullshit. Terriblly written and the “story” plot and the dialogues are … sad. Besides, these “vampires “ are very human like, boring and or animal blood drinking drug addicted fairies. And my friend told me that Eddie and Bella have a child? And they had their first time after marriage? Yes sure, a vampire is so nice, innocent and decent. Such childish nonsense. Ah sorry. >.<

          I must have standards.

          Hahahahahahahaha XDDD OMG. You will kill me tonight, right? Hey when you what my death you can have it easier. XD

          I cannot blame you. Necrophilia sounds very unappealing, also cold and as I understand decomposition to be, very messy. Cold bodies are disarming, and lack of breath I think should be a deal breaker. Fortunately, I can do more than just rest prone and unmoving on a slab.

          *laugh * I love the way you speak.

          Its no problem when the body is cold and hard. If it’s needed, a blanket and a hot water bottle helps. 😀 But the other things are really not very…delicious.
          I cannot understand how this can turn some people on…

          Is that so? Hmm well, it seems Bianca was pleased with you. And she had lots of comparisons. Guess I must belive you that… …..

        2. Yes, absolutely! Your answer about Commodus was correct.

          Hmmm. Explosions are not very environmentally friendly. What mean things do you say or do to them?

          I know what hurts other people, and I am usually very cautious and considerate. You can say that I use my knowledge only for the purpose of good. However when I am in just the right mood, I can use what I know about them to insult or injure. It is like I cannot stop until the person I am angry at has been emotionally destroyed.

          When did you first read it?

          I am sure it was some time during the 17th century when the book was fairly new. It did take some considerable time for books to move outside of their point of origin, so popularity was a waiting game, as was general accessibility for the masses.

          Be honest, haven’t you given in to temptation with such a willing and innocent human?

          Of course I have. I give in to temptation very frequently. Though I don’t think “willing” would be quite the correct word. You see, these mortal men and women think I am only some handsome man kissing them, and so they give themselves over to me for this. They are willing to give themselves over to me for this intimacy, and I take much more from them.

          It is very easy to calm them, as one must when seeking to be gentle and not raise concern amongst the general public surrounding you. Despite what movies would have you believe, having someone drive holes into your neck hurts. There is no gentle way to do this, and so if one does not want screaming and panic, one must intoxicate them just a bit, and supplant pain with comfort. It like a hypnotic and sensual anaesthesia. This is what I do. Instead of our moment becoming panic and pain, it is instead a drunk and heady pleasure.

          I never kill them. Ever. They are far too precious for that, and those who are to die must be those who deserve to die. I do not kill innocent people. I only take quick and small pleasure from their blood and warmth, and then I safely release them. I do not usually let them remember me as it would be awkward, I would think, since I tend to frequent the same places. They remember nothing about the moment. There are a few I let remember.

          I do not get willing blood donors because I do not let on what I am or what it is I want.

          Hahahahahahahaha XDDD OMG. You will kill me tonight, right? Hey when you what my death you can have it easier. XD

          My self control is immaculate. Even if I were starving hungry and every cell of my body aching and screaming for blood, you would be safe by my side.

          Is that so? Hmm well, it seems Bianca was pleased with you. And she had lots of comparisons. Guess I must belive you that… …..

          Bianca was one of the few in my life who truly loved me as me, not what they imagined me to be or thought I was.

  6. I think you of all people can understand the joy of writing out a completed translated sentence. It can’t be just me. I cannot be that much of a boring academic that others do not share the same sort of satisfaction at a properly translated phrase. And sometimes when I stare down at a page of Latin, I am filled with just pure happiness and excitement to unwind its mystery one word at a time. It is not so hard, but I like to take my time and label and construct, that way I can provide the same roadmap for others who may want to work behind me or see how I got to the translated conclusion I did.

    I love it. My passion for the Latin language is ousted by few other things. When I hear it, in its full classical glory, my insides just sigh with pleasure.

    Don’t worry, it’s not just you. I know exactely how that feels. It’s a sensation like eating a very delicious piece of fruit or drinking a smoothy.
    I had Livius with me on my first travel alone in plane and I read my beloved Catullus carmen V when waiting for my oral exam in microbiology and I did sleep with Martialis under my pillow simply to have the words close.
    I’m sure, you cannot walk past a Latin inscription without trying to decipher it either.
    If I have a bad day I don’t want any Latin near me because it’s hard to get defeated again and again but even then I know that I actually only wish to really understand it one day.

    1. Slept with the dear Marcus Valerius Martialis under your pillow? What a woman after my own heart. I consider myself quite enamored still with Rome and the Latin language, but it seems you may have surpassed me in dedication.

      I cannot see anything in Latin without translating it. Even the silly “Ars gratia artis” you see on movie logos I must translate in my head each and every time I see it. I still dream in Latin, too, which is delightful.

      Though thankfully Italians are still much like Romans, which makes me fit in and not alter my behaviour too much. Romans were very expressive with their hands, as are Italians. I think we could have entire conversations with just our hands alone. It is a language unto itself.

      The key is to never let defeat defeat you. Put it off a while, yes, but never give up entirely.

      1. Yes, I was already laying in bed and reading “Epigrammata”. It was so funny I couldn’t stop until I was very, very tired. When it became impossible to keep my eyes open one minute longer, I simply stuffed the book under my pillow and fell asleep immediately.

        Really? Wow, now I’m definitely feeling a little less dumb *laughs*
        When you dream in Latin, is this a random occurence or always connected with certain persons or themes in your dreams?
        Do you think in Latin, too?
        I think and daydream in English very often now, and depending on my current books in those languages as well.

        I fear I couldn’t give up, even if I wanted to. Learning Latin properly seems to be one of those big challenges one has to work on a whole lifetime.

        1. Less dumb? No, no. Tanaquil, you are one of those people so, so very far from dumb. Your modesty is wonderful, though, because it is the marker of a kind person. But I hold you in high esteem and will never believe in any way that the label of dumb can be attached to you in even the smallest way.

          It seems to me that the Latin in my dreams is a random thing. I see it on signs or I hear it out of people’s mouths, or I even think in it as I sleep. It is very strange but sometimes when I wake I feel the strangest longing. I think sometimes my brain just needs to reconnect with my past.

          I do think in Latin, and I am prone to speak it to people, which goes over well when I talk to someone like Pandora, but not so much when I talk to friends who have no knowledge of the Latin language. Pandora and I talk in Latin together because it is comfortable for the both of us. I’m certain that “tace!” is the most frequently heard thing when we are together.

  7. Yes, absolutely! Your answer about Commodus was correct.

    XDDD cool! I still get a B although I used the I-net a bit?

    I know what hurts other people, and I am usually very cautious and considerate. You can say that I use my knowledge only for the purpose of good. However when I am in just the right mood, I can use what I know about them to insult or injure. It is like I cannot stop until the person I am angry at has been emotionally destroyed.

    …It is like you cannot stop until the person you are angry at has been emotionally destroyed… ….You may not like to hear that now but you sound like a vamp we both know…he said almost the same to me…
    Well, what could make you so very angry that you become so merciless?

    I am sure it was some time during the 17th century when the book was fairly new. It did take some considerable time for books to move outside of their point of origin, so popularity was a waiting game, as was general accessibility for the masses.

    Do you remember the feeling you had when you read the book for the first time?

    Of course I have. I give in to temptation very frequently. Though I don’t think “willing” would be quite the correct word. You see, these mortal men and women think I am only some handsome man kissing them, and so they give themselves over to me for this. They are willing to give themselves over to me for this intimacy, and I take much more from them.

    I must say I love how you describe it.

    But…I wouldn´t allow any stranger -handsome or not- to kiss me…is that normal in your world? Oh wait…Wowowowo, should that mean that -If you really managed to seduce me completely – you would like to drink from me?? Pff. Männer.

    It is very easy to calm them, as one must when seeking to be gentle and not raise concern amongst the general public surrounding you. Despite what movies would have you believe, having someone drive holes into your neck hurts. There is no gentle way to do this, and so if one does not want screaming and panic, one must intoxicate them just a bit, and supplant pain with comfort. It like a hypnotic and sensual anaesthesia. This is what I do. Instead of our moment becoming panic and pain, it is instead a drunk and heady pleasure.

    So it is in the end an Illusion.

    How exactly does that work? You whisper into their mind that they will like your vampire touch?

    I never kill them. Ever. They are far too precious for that, and those who are to die must be those who deserve to die. I do not kill innocent people. I only take quick and small pleasure from their blood and warmth, and then I safely release them. I do not usually let them remember me as it would be awkward, I would think, since I tend to frequent the same places. They remember nothing about the moment. There are a few I let remember.

    Was there never a dark desire in you, let’s call it a typical vampire desire, to take a (innocent) mortal with force? Or have you simply not got this dark side?

    Which ones do you allow to remember and why?

    …It is terrible with me, right? I always ask so much and want to know everything precisely. But I cant help it, that’s so typical me and besides you are unique and interesting. I cannot stop pondering, so see it as a compliment yes? 😀

    I do not get willing blood donors because I do not let on what I am or what it is I want.

    Let’s assume, a mortal you like, offers you a couple of swallows of his/her blood. Would that be a secret desire of yours? Or would you want to resist? If so, why?

    My self control is immaculate. Even if I were starving hungry and every cell of my body aching and screaming for blood, you would be safe by my side.

    Why use this self control when you are almost dead? Because you are a gentleman and I´m innocent?

    And what if I were to make you very angry, you wouldn´t kill me but destroy me emotionally? Hmm no hard feelings but I prefer the death thing more. XDD

    Bianca was one of the few in my life who truly loved me as me, not what they imagined me to be or thought I was.

    Yes Indeed, she was and is a really great woman…If I remember correctly you hurt her…

    1. XDDD cool! I still get a B although I used the I-net a bit?

      A B? What an honest student you are to request a point deduction for your source material.

      …It is like you cannot stop until the person you are angry at has been emotionally destroyed… ….You may not like to hear that now but you sound like a vamp we both know…he said almost the same to me…
      Well, what could make you so very angry that you become so merciless?

      We are more alike than most think, and he knows that as well as I do. Instead of black and white, we are all just various shades of grey.

      Do you remember the feeling you had when you read the book for the first time?

      I thought it was wonderful to read a book of pure comedic value once again. Rome loved its comedy, loved its laughter, but the middle ages was not a time full of humour, and the Renaissance was much more interested in philosophy and classics. It was a relief to read something that just made me laugh.

      But…I wouldn´t allow any stranger -handsome or not- to kiss me…is that normal in your world? Oh wait…Wowowowo, should that mean that -If you really managed to seduce me completely – you would like to drink from me?? Pff. Männer.

      There are a lot of people who would let a stranger kiss them, just as there are a lot of people who would not. Neither one is strange or more abnormal than the other. I do not pursue people who do not want to be pursued, and I use no tricks to get them to agree to let me close. It is always their choice, every step of the way, until I must take from them what I need. In exchange, I give them the pleasure they need.

      I think any intimacy requires an exchange of need. When you seduce someone, you do so because you have a physical need (and in some cases an emotional one that corresponds) that you wish to be met. For a human, it is pleasure. That is their need. For me, it is blood. That is my need.

      So it is in the end an Illusion.
      How exactly does that work? You whisper into their mind that they will like your vampire touch?

      Yes. It is not very hard to whisper into someone’s head, and then to manipulate parts of it like locks that you click open and closed, to create a custom made emotional design for them to experience. Having someone drive holes into your body can be very painful, so this must be one of the locks that I close, but not all of the way. I want them to feel a bit of a sting, which they take to be harmless passionate bites. It would not do if they were numb. I turn the key and open the door for them to feel no fear, no matter what it is they feel, and only enjoy the pleasure. I close the lock that is where they would wonder why my lips are cold.

      Men are quite terrible, aren’t they?

      Was there never a dark desire in you, let’s call it a typical vampire desire, to take a (innocent) mortal with force? Or have you simply not got this dark side?

      All of us vampires have that desire in us, though some of us with more force than others. I feel it from time to time, when I look at someone and my lust flares so hot that my whole body lights on fire, and I want to take them and drink every drop of their blood while they struggle like a helpless doll underneath me. Ineffective punches and pushes against my body, and I only grow harder and heavier as they grow weaker, and finally submit because they have no energy left in their slowly dying body.

      But I do not give in to these desires. I take a deep breath and I contain my dark thoughts and wants. This has not always been the case, as I am sure you know if you have read my book. I had my times when the rage and lust was too much, and I could be quite vicious and guiltless. I am still guiltless. I only wish to resist succumbing to my vicious side.

      Which ones do you allow to remember and why?

      The ones I like and would wish a repeat of our intimacy. If they remember me fondly, there is a better chance that we can meet again in some dark corner of a bar or even their home. Or the ones I want to be friends with, or have a relationship with.

      Let’s assume, a mortal you like, offers you a couple of swallows of his/her blood. Would that be a secret desire of yours? Or would you want to resist? If so, why?

      If a mortal I desired were to offer me their blood, I would not resist. Not even for a second. Not even would I hide behind the pretense of a second long hesitation. It is a not so secret desire of mine to have a beautiful man or woman offer themself to me.

      Why use this self control when you are almost dead? Because you are a gentleman and I´m innocent?

      Almost dead? I am all the way dead. And no lack of blood would kill me; I am quite strong.

      But yes, because I am a gentleman, you are innocent, and you are my friend.

      And what if I were to make you very angry, you wouldn´t kill me but destroy me emotionally? Hmm no hard feelings but I prefer the death thing more.

      I cannot see you as the type to make me angry enough that I would try to hurt you with my words, either. You have to be really quite rude to arouse that much anger in me, and you simply don’t have the cruelness to be that rude.

      Yes Indeed, she was and is a really great woman…If I remember correctly you hurt her…

      Our relationship was complex. I would like to see a couple alive who hasn’t, more than once, hurt one another. Our relationship was not a traditional one by any means, because it was not the two us, but the three of us, but we argued like any man and woman does.

      1. A B? What an honest student you are to request a point deduction for your source material.

        =^.^= Of course I´m honest. I adorn myself not with borrowed plumes. But I´m pleased when you are satisfied with me.

        We are more alike than most think, and he knows that as well as I do. Instead of black and white, we are all just various shades of grey.

        Your shades of grey have some gold and silver inside.

        I thought it was wonderful to read a book of pure comedic value once again. Rome loved its comedy, loved its laughter, but the middle ages was not a time full of humour, and the Renaissance was much more interested in philosophy and classics. It was a relief to read something that just made me laugh.

        True, this kind of comedy was a successful and enjoyable diversified. I’m reading again Cyrano de Bergerac. Surely are you familiar with it.

        There are a lot of people who would let a stranger kiss them, just as there are a lot of people who would not. Neither one is strange or more abnormal than the other. I do not pursue people who do not want to be pursue, and I use no tricks to get them to agree to let me close. It is always their choice, every step of the way, until I must take from them what I need. In exchange, I give them the pleasure they need.
        I think any intimacy requires an exchange of need. When you seduce someone, you do so because you have a physical need (and in some cases an emotional one that corresponds) that you wish to be met. For a human, it is pleasure. That is their need. For me, it is blood. That is my need.

        Why you don´t use any tricks?

        Phew, such a a dilemma. I don´t like the bite thing. However, as I said once, perhaps there could be one or two vamps who could „force“ or seduce me that I let them so close…How would you persuade me?

        Yes. It is not very hard to whisper into someone’s head, and then to manipulate parts of it like locks that you click open and closed, to create a custom made emotional design for them to experience. Having someone drive holes into your body can be very painful, so this must be one of the locks that I close, but not all of the way. I want them to feel a bit of a sting, which they take to be harmless passionate bites. It would not do if they were numb. I turn the key and open the door for them to feel no fear, no matter what it is they feel, and only enjoy the pleasure. I close the lock that is where they would wonder why my lips are cold.

        Thanks. Beautifully explained and easy to understand. The teacher thing lies really in your blood.

        What do you think, how many vamps are so “nice“ to their victim, no matter if the kill them or not.

        I’m not good at tolerating physical pain. Especially my dentist knows that. He said he never had another patient as sensitive in the mouth as I am. Lol. However, even though I’m not a big fan of cold it simply is part of a real vampire. So let’s go the whole hog. I would want to feel the cold lips of yours.

        Men are quite terrible, aren’t they?

        Ha. Not men but vamipres. …Ok, men too.

        All of us vampires have that desire in us, though some of us with more force than others. I feel it from time to time, when I look at someone and my lust flares so hot that I my whole body lights on fire, and I want to take them and drink every drop of their blood while they struggle like a helpless doll underneath me. Ineffective punches and pushes against my body, and I only grow harder and heavier as they grow weaker, and finally submit because they have no energy left in their slowly dying body.
        But I do not give in to these desires. I take a deep breath and I contain my dark thoughts and wants. This has not always been the case, as I am sure you know if you have read my book. I had my times when the rage and lust was too much, and I could be quite vicious and guiltless. I am still guiltless. I only wish to resist succumbing to my vicious side.

        Why don´t you give in to these desires? Because your moral code, your conscience says, It is wrong?

        Let’s assume, a mortal you love, not th biggest love ever, but you love, will be hurt terrible by another mortal. No matter which injury but really terrible. Any you lover ask for the death of the other mortal. Would you do it? And would it make a diffrent when that bad mortal would have a familie? A familie who he/she treat very well?

        The ones I like and would wish a repeat of our intimacy. If they remember me fondly, there is a better chance that we can meet again in some dark corner of a bar or even their home. Or the ones I want to be friends with, or have a relationship with.

        How do people commonly react on learning that your diet is a rather special one? Surely some get frightened, do they not?
        I would see it as very impolite if you would mess with my brain and make me forget things. Never even think of trying that with me.

        If a mortal I desired were to offer me their blood, I would not resist. Not even for a second. Not even would I hide behind the pretense of a second long hesitation. It is a not so secret desire of mine to have a beautiful man or woman offer themself to me.

        What would you do if the mortal beg for death?

        Almost dead? I am all the way dead. And no lack of blood would kill me; I am quite strong.
        But yes, because I am a gentleman, you are innocent, and you are my friend.

        Strange. Somehow I believe you that. …Naahhh its not good to trust a vamp. 😉

        I cannot see you as the type to make me angry enough that I would try to hurt you with my words, either. You have to be really quite rude to arouse that much anger in me, and you simply don’t have the cruelness to be that rude.

        Psssst, don´t say that to loud, I could lose my “she is so very bold” reputation. But you are right. I would never try to upset or even hurt you. I’m simply not that type for really meanie things. ^.^ How long did you need to that I´m a good girl?

        Ah but always keep in mind, teasing is a sign of affection. 😀 And to tease an old man is wonderful. *grin

        Our relationship was complex. I would like to see a couple alive who hasn’t, more than once, hurt one another. Our relationship was not a traditional one by any means, because it was not the two us, but the three of us, but we argued like any man and woman does.

        Complex? Hmm. Was it not so that you said to Pandora something like “I will leave Bianca when you come with me”?
        Now I tell you what, my love. If I had been Pandora, I would have said: Marius, you are horrible! And then I would left you immediately. If I had been Bianca, you would simply never have seen me again. That would hurt me so very much, that you were not even a rage worthy in my eyes. In your whole life story there are 2 events you would get my contempt if I had been personally involved. This is one event of it. That was not very gentleman like of you hmn?

        1. Your shades of grey have some gold and silver inside.

          And a frightening amount of red.

          Why you don´t use any tricks?

          I suppose because I like to be genuinely desired. It is false attraction when I must resort to tricks and the use of my powers. I use them, yes, to make the experience better, and to make my victim forget. But I do not use them to compel desire. That I want to earn.

          Phew, such a a dilemma. I don´t like the bite thing. However, as I said once, perhaps there could be one or two vamps who could „force“ or seduce me that I let them so close…How would you persuade me?

          Kisses in and of themselves are harmless and quite persuasive. I admit, I take the blood without permission. I have permission to kiss, to touch, to be close. The blood I take in secret.

          What do you think, how many vamps are so “nice“ to their victim, no matter if the kill them or not.

          I cannot lie and say that most surely do, because they do not. After all, most vampires kill, and they kill without mercy. I can’t endure the violence of this, though, not after all these years. I would like to think that if a vampire plans to leave their victim alive, they will want to make the experience a rewarding and pleasurable one. The screams alone would be terrible. Perhaps some like the screams, the full body shoves, and the fear. Knowing vampires as I do, I would say quite many of them do.

          Why don´t you give in to these desires? Because your moral code, your conscience says, It is wrong?

          Because the more I embrace the dark and violent nature of the vampire, the further I wander from the part of me that remains human. The more beast I become, the less man I am.

          Let’s assume, a mortal you love, not th biggest love ever, but you love, will be hurt terrible by another mortal. No matter which injury but really terrible. Any you lover ask for the death of the other mortal. Would you do it? And would it make a diffrent when that bad mortal would have a familie? A familie who he/she treat very well?

          Do not think poorly of me for saying so, but I must confess that if a mortal I loved were to ask me to kill for them, I would. I would take the crimes of this person or persons into consideration, however. I would not kill someone simply because my lover wished it for no good reason. If the person I was asked to kill was a truly bad person, the family would not matter. A person who hurts one very likely hurts everyone they know. Even if that wasn’t the case, I would pay the family little mind.

          I have done it before, after all, for Bianca.

          How do people commonly react on learning that your diet is a rather special one? Surely some get frightened, do they not?

          It is shameful, but I am never completely honest about my special diet. They continue to feel my bites as kisses.

          What would you do if the mortal beg for death?

          If I cared for this mortal, I do not think I could bring myself to kill them, even if they begged. If I did not know them, or I did not care for them one way or another, I would pity them. Some people do genuinely want to die. If they are certain of this desire, I would likely grant it.

          Complex? Hmm. Was it not so that you said to Pandora something like “I will leave Bianca when you come with me”?
          Now I tell you what, my love. If I had been Pandora, I would have said: Marius, you are horrible! And then I would left you immediately.

          I am not perfect, and I do make mistakes. Find me a person who has never said a hasty and foolish thing because of love, please. I would have said anything to keep Pandora with me. To be separated from the one you love is terrible. To be separated from them for over a thousand years is indescribable. There she was, though, next to me for the first time in what felt like an eternity. Can I be blamed for saying hasty and regrettable things out of desperation and fear?

          If I had been Bianca, you would simply never have seen me again. That would hurt me so very much, that you were not even a rage worthy in my eyes.

          Yes, well, as I am sure you recall, Bianca did leave me. And then I was alone. So I paid a price for my words. And I have not seen her again since. So I suppose I was punished just as you feel I should have been. Satisfied?

          That was not very gentleman like of you hmn?

          I suppose not.

  8. Less dumb? No, no. Tanaquil, you are one of those people so, so very far from dumb. Your modesty is wonderful, though, because it is the marker of a kind person. But I hold you in high esteem and will never believe in any way that the label of dumb can be attached to you in even the smallest way.

    I wasn’t serious when I said so. Sometimes I forget that people don’t see my face or hear the tone of my voice on the internet. What I meant was more along the lines of: “talking to you motivates me to read Latin texts. This makes me remember how much I love it”.
    Women are terrible, always meaning something different than what they say, haha.

    It seems to me that the Latin in my dreams is a random thing. I see it on signs or I hear it out of people’s mouths, or I even think in it as I sleep. It is very strange but sometimes when I wake I feel the strangest longing. I think sometimes my brain just needs to reconnect with my past.

    Let’s stay with the dreams a bit. Do you usually remember your dreams? Do you have nightmares sometimes?

    I do think in Latin, and I am prone to speak it to people, which goes over well when I talk to someone like Pandora, but not so much when I talk to friends who have no knowledge of the Latin language. Pandora and I talk in Latin together because it is comfortable for the both of us. I’m certain that “tace!” is the most frequently heard thing when we are together.

    I fear speaking Latin is a rare skill nowadays. Or maybe that’s just my impression because I’m with scientists all day. Most of them concentarted on math, chemistry, biology or physics at school. I don’t know how it’s in other fields.
    It’s a pity the two of you fight so much. But wouldn’t it be even more horrible if one of you would follow that order and be quiet, once and for all?

    1. I wasn’t serious when I said so. Sometimes I forget that people don’t see my face or hear the tone of my voice on the internet. What I meant was more along the lines of: “talking to you motivates me to read Latin texts. This makes me remember how much I love it”.

      Then that is wonderful and I am delighted by the compliment. Though my reasons are a bit selfish because it is very hard to find someone who appreciates Latin and can enjoy a conversation about Latin. It is not the sort of subject one may usually bring up in typical associations or social events.

      Let’s stay with the dreams a bit. Do you usually remember your dreams? Do you have nightmares sometimes?

      I have a very keen memories for dreams, and I daresay that I have far more nightmares than I do dreams that are normal or pleasant. But then this has always been the case. I do not think that I am, as a vampire, so much more “tortured” that my dreams are plagued. I suppose this could be a fraction of the reason, but not entirely. I used to have very terrible “night terrors” and “sleep paralysis” with hallucinations as a young man. I had to drug myself heavily with alcohol just so that I could get through a night without a terrible nightmare or wrecking waking dream hallucinations.

      I still have them. I had such a sleep paralysis with hallucinations just the other night as I napped.

      Tell me of your last nightmare, Tanaquil.

      1. That sounds very, very unpleasant. But I don’t know what “sleep paralysis” is. Would you mind to explain? Do you have any idea why you’re having those? For me sleep is a safe refuge, especially if I had a bad day. Should bring rest and peace. Fell yourself hugged-if you like hugs that is. Not all of your kind do, I heared.

        Mh, usually I have very lively, pleasant and most of all funny dreams. Nightmares are an absolute exception. But the other night I did indeed have one. My grandfather is very ill at the moment and in my dream the doctors told him that the prognosis is looking far worse than they thought. I was there and I saw all his fear and desperation.
        His fear and my inability to do anything but call as often as I can haunts me during the day, already.

        1. Sleep paralysis is a sleep disorder. It appears that though vampire blood can cure any physical malady, the mental ones are untouched.

          Sleep paralysis is a condition where, in deep sleep, the mind wakes up but the body does not. This makes it almost impossible to move your limbs, to speak, and even to some extent breathe. It can feel as if something is sitting on your chest crushing it. Try as you might you cannot move even though it is natural in this state to feel anxiety or fear, only made worse by the fact that the body simply cannot move. It is quite distressing.

          Your eyes can still see, so you wake up and can view the room about you as it is, as it would be if you were awake. You can see your ceiling, your windows, your personal items. But because the brain is still in a dream state, you also hallucinate. The real world is a very real backdrop to these dreams, which make them more terrifying. I have so many strange things. The floating head of Constantine and the emperor Augustus. A goblin dancing about me. Hooded figures. A grey woman whispering my name. Strange and surreal objects floating throughout the real world.

          I have heard some sleep specialists and psychologists suggest that people who claim to have been abducted by aliens in their sleep or say they are haunted by ghosts may in many cases be experiencing this sleep disorder.

          What a terrible nightmare to have, and very reflective of your state of mind. I do hope your grandfather remains well in this world for a long, long time to come.

  9. “Sleep paralysis” must be really creepy. I’m a curious person but I hope I’ll never experience something similar to what you described above.
    What do you do after such a night? what calms your mind afterwards?

    What a terrible nightmare to have, and very reflective of your state of mind. I do hope your grandfather remains well in this world for a long, long time to come.
    Yes, I didn’t have a good week but now things are looking up a bit. He’s better again, optimistic and already planning a trip to the Alps in autumn.

    1. They were very troubling to me as a child, and annoying to me as a young man because they disturbed me from getting a good night’s rest. In an episode of sleep paralysis, you wind up spending the entire night fighting your own body, so you wake up more exhausted than when you went to sleep. Sometimes I could have these episodes one after the other, so as soon as I recovered from one, I would be in another. Up to four times a night.

      I learned to relax and to tell myself that it is just an episode. Instead of fighting the sounds and hallucinations, I just let my eyes close again and then I fall back asleep. Sometimes this could be a bit frightening because I would still be hearing things and could still feel the general surreal tint of dream about me. So it made me want to open my eyes solely because I wanted to make sure nothing was coming to hurt me.

      It is a good thing that I was not a child during the middle ages or else I am sure they would have exorcised me and then finally set me on fire for being a witch.

      I calm myself using logic, cold and hard logic. I know what it is that is happening, and so I remind myself in the midst of my strange hallucinations that they are dreams. That I really should just close my eyes and ignore it all. So I do.

  10. It is a good thing that I was not a child during the middle ages or else I am sure they would have exorcised me and then finally set me on fire for being a witch.
    Good for you indeed. But what did your family think about this? Dreams were payed much attention in your age, if I remember correctly.

    It’s also good you found a way to calm yourself and deal with those attacts. Battles with the own mind are hard ones. Besides, most people get grumpy and not very pleasant to be around when they’re deprived of sleep.

    PS: I hope you don’t mind the slow but continuous digression from the original topic of your post, here and elsewhere.

    1. Dreams were very important in Rome because many believed that dreams were messages from the Gods themselves, or would be important to prophecy or the auspices. When I was a child, unaware of what was happening, I was candid in what happened to me at night. I was unaware of the seriousness of what would be thought about me: some thought I was an unlucky child, some thought I was cursed by Gods while others thought I was blessed by them, some thought I had a divine spirit in me, and others thought I would make an excellent priest for the state.

      I knew this was all nonsense, even as a child. Gods were and are constructs and I had no interest in being a priest.

      Needless to say, it didn’t take long for me to discover that it was wise for me to keep what happened to myself. This is why I needed to develop my own coping strategies.

      I was always the sort who needed a certain amount of sleep or else I would feel terrible the whole following day. Yes, very grumpy when I did not get the right amount of sleep.

      1. I was unaware of the seriousness of what would be thought about me: some thought I was an unlucky child, some thought I was cursed by Gods while others thought I was blessed by them, some thought I had a divine spirit in me, and others thought I would make an excellent priest for the state.

        You a priest? Well, in this case maybe Mael and Santino only wanted to help you to fulfill your true destiny 😉

        I was always the sort who needed a certain amount of sleep or else I would feel terrible the whole following day. Yes, very grumpy when I did not get the right amount of sleep.
        Were you one of those people who could sleep until midday when you were mortal? How about now, does a vampire can get too little sleep?

        1. A Roman priest, so considerably less concerned with things like morality, hymns, and confessionals. But I could not suffer to think of spending my good years, my youth, studying with Etruscan masters how to read the future in a liver, or studying the prophetic messages of silly birds. It was so absurd. It should have been an honour, but to me it sounded like a fate worse than death.

          I could sleep until midday and beyond if allowed! I tried, however, to maintain enough self-discipline that I would force myself up and roused, ready for the sun to rise and me with it. Miserably so, of course. But when I would indulge, I could sleep an entire day away. It didn’t help that I suffered extreme insomnia starting from about the age of 22 onward. It was something only immortality cured me of.

          Vampires must sleep. Imagine you are an immortal and rather than stay in one place and sleep during the day, you continually move and follow the sun and the moon, living in a state of almost perpetual darkness with nearly no day by which to force sleep. This would take a mental and physical toll on the vampire body. We must too sleep.

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